How did he get the ability to do what he does?
Not by whining that it was too tough. Hapkido is very hard, and very good if done properly.
I see you as having to choices. Learn all you can from this experienced teacher, while you can, he has much for you if you are sturdy enough to do it.
Or find a milder place to train that is easier on your sensibilities.
edit: I would wager his control is excellent. Thease instructors do not damage people, But as JoKyoNim put it, they make sure they are felt. Instructors I trained with in the 60s and 70s could not teach that way today, the law would not allow it. Those places remain underground.
This is just my own personal theory so take it with a grain of salt: my instructors have been primarily Korean. While they don't necessarily enjoy inflicting pain, they inflict the pain so that you understand the damage you can cause when executing these techniques. I've had my wrists twisted to the point where I thought they'd break, my elbows, my shoulders, and I've been pinned, thrown, and slammed on the ground. Yes, there's pain, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's sadism. Sadists don't develop you and if your instructor is correcting you in order for you to get it right, he's not a sadist. Now, I bring up the whole Korean thing because Hapkido is a Korean art and most instructors I've come across are Korean. But they also have the old school Korean mentality where inflicting pain isn't so much about hurting someone as much as it is enforcing a state of mind or understanding.
Talk to him about it. There's not shame in approaching your instructor and saying: "hey, I'm in pain".
EDIT: This isn't unique to Koreans as I've experienced it being a cadet. There's a rhyme and a reason to it all. Now, if he hurts you and doesn't let up when you say you're in serious pain, then that's a problem.
Train elsewhere.
An instructor or student who does not observe the partner's tap out is a disgrace to the martial art community. He lacks respect for his students, and his students will get hurt to the point they can no longer train. And there is little to be learned from pain like that.
EDIT: I'm curious about all the answers that say this is normal and that he's a good instructor. If the instructor cannot demonstrate self-control, would you want to be training other students who have not been taught self-control? And what do you think will happen to you, when/if you need to use self-defense, and you don't know how to exercise self-control?
EDIT: I find this tough to stomach: if he demonstrates a technique, and you tap out, and he doesn't let go, what he's saying is that it is okay when someone taps out that you can go ahead and use your own judgement as to when to stop. And that is all backed by the fact that he's an old master at 9th dan. I'm sorry: when I tap out, I'm telling my partner to STOP. I'm not telling him that I've reached my threshold of pain, but you can continue to teach me what it feels like to not let go. Here's the problem: he may be a "master" with many years of experience, and may know when to keep going even though someone taps out. But what of his students?
Maybe he's teaching his students that there is an art to tapping out. His students will be used to tapping out early, because really: who wants to keep getting hurt all the time?
Soreness is not unusual, but really: what is the point of re-learning this lesson? Is it that the lesson is that the technique can ONLY be learned through experiencing pain?
Sorry, I don't buy it: this is irresponsible. Self-control is the key to martial arts. Recklessness will land you in jail, even though a controlled pin and an uncontrolled pin have the same effect. It's just that an uncontrolled pin can lead to damage which will subject you to a lawsuit or arrest.
Here's something else to think about: if you are thinking about the lock, what kind of realistic intent in striking are you going to perform? Once you start thinking about the pain, you will immediately start "pulling" your techniques. Your strikes then become non-genuine. You will cause the defender to have to go looking to apply the technique, and now your valuable practice is wasted.
Maybe you are taught differently about when to tap, but I am taught to take as much pain as I can handle and apply as much resistance as possible so that the person applying the technique can make adjustments. When you are unable to take the pain, or when you are confident that the technique cannot be reasonably reversed, then you tap. But if you teach students that you can "go a little further", now I have to ask just what "a little further" really means? You are asking - relying on - a person who is not a master of the technique to make a judgement call to prevent injury.
Sorry: The boundary IS the tap. If you deliberately cross that boundary, you had better watch out when it's my turn - or more likely, the moment you release the lock. Payback is a pain.
There is only one person in the world who is fully qualified to say that the threshold of pain has been met, and if you go further you will seriously do damage. And that person is the one who is tapping out. That is WHY we have tapping: so we eliminate the otherwise-required "judgement call" as to when the technique is sufficiently applied.
When the instructor teaches students to tap properly, there is no need to "go a little further".
LOL sorry I had to laugh. You may think this. All good Korean martial arts are this way. I study Kuk Sool Hap Ki. Which is a little more traditional and scientific version of HapKiDo. Yes it may feel sadistic. But you have to remember it has been 7 years since you practiced. I remember when I took a long leave of absence. I was in for a rude awakening. This is one reason there is a high attrition rate. It is by nature hard on the wrist. In order to know the technique you nee to have it applied correctly. And sometimes it is hard on the body. Did he break your wrist? No it is sore. This is another reason why we condition ourselves a certain way. If you think they hurt now just wait until you get to the blackbelt level of techniques. So to answer your question. Yes this is normal for a legit HapKiDo dojang. Use tiger balm and do some wrist stretches and exercises.
As for being sadistic this is another attribute to real Korean Martial arts. Most HapKiDo usually don't have forms. As Kuk Sool does. Hidden in the forms are some brutal sadistic techniques. Just look at the finish moves for Ki Bohn Soo, or Joo Muhk Maga Ki Bohn Soo (blue belt Techniques) which are completely vicious . It is almost overkill. This is one reason why UFC dislikes our system of martial arts. Sometimes my instructor will hold the technique even when I tap just so I now what it feels like when I apply it to others and to get the idea of the technique you wont forget it easily.
@KW...You have no idea what your talking abt. Mainly when it comes to things like HapKiDo. When the technique is done correctly you feel it. And there are methods of strengthening the wrist. Almost ALL good HapKiDo instructors when they apply a technique will let you feel it for a moment even when you tap. If you don't how do you know it works or how it feels on an opponent? I know for fact by training with high level HapKiDo blackbelts it my seem sadistic but it is not. You learn to strengthen and stretch the joint, tendons, ligaments. There are certain exercises for this. It is only when your a beginner this feels sadistic and excessive. It has to deal with the angles of the joints as well. Do it correctly you feel it. Done incorrectly you don't feel anything. A inflexible and weak wrist you feel it more. This is one of the reasons UFC and MMA don't like people from certain martial arts, mainly HapKiDo and Kuk Sool. Get you in one of those joint-locks and you will tap standing up, if done correctly. If done incorrectly you will be able to resist it or reverse it.
BTW he did exhibit control. He didn't break the students wrist or arm. And tapping just means it is applied correctly. My instructor will make me tap go to another technique and I will tap than go into another than another. With out doing the finishing move. Do one of the techniques even at white belt level is hard on the wrist and arm. You tap. Do the full technique you wind up on the ground. The finish move is just icing on the cake. Usually by that time the opponent will have been injured and thrown on his head. No real need for the finish move at that point. Go ahead keep knocking traditional when it teaches everything you need and then some. Better than MMA. Just try it for 6 months and see if you can last. Not many make it to blackbelt with a good instructor. Your wrists become stronger than most average martial artists do to the training.
@Sev...Exactly my thought as well on it
Change school, is very obvious that the specific instructor lacks something...When we are training we are just training and we are not doing something else...Too many weak people, do not seem to understand the difference between training and something else..and try to call everything they see as just realistic training...That is not the case..You need to understand the difference, in order to be able to choose a healthy and safe training regime, that will aid you and not the opposite..
There just is no easy way to excel....especially in traditional martial arts. If you want to represent that particular school, then there's no alternative but to take what they dish out. Or get out. My 2 cents worth.
Here's 2 choices:
1. Harden up
2.Leave.
You need to contact Jason "Mayhem" Miller to get Chuck Norris to fight your Instructor on a Bully Beatdown Episode...
I don't care how excellent his martial arts skills are. If he doesn't acknowledge your tap, he's not a good instructor. He lacks respect for his students.
I like him. Stay. He is not your friend. He is your instructor. He is showing you respect by allowing you to train hard, so soon after rejoining.
i recently decided to start hapkido again after a 7 years long hiatus and the new instructor has amazing skill. he's a 9th degree black belt in the sin moo hapkido division and despite being in his 80's he can take down 30-40 year old black belts without breaking a sweat. problem is that he's a bit of a sadist. when demonstrating a technique such as joint lock can get really painful and you have to yell a few times to get him to stop. i really don't want to stop instruction as i know i'm getting some of the most legit hapkido training out their, but its already 5 weeks and my wrists are unbelievably sore.
