I know I compared this to China but I am willing to bet there are not much differences.
If you are a guilt ridden 12 year old black belt you are giving much too much importance to a belt. While I personally do not believe in kid black belts for our western society I am not overly upset about it either. If you truly are a martial artist stuff like that should not phase you if you are the recipient or one of those who takes offense in that the honor you have worked for so hard has been misused. Martial arts is not about you nor does it center around you. Its just a belt and honor is something like respect. It is not a belt or a one time thing but determined by your everyday actions. You are a black belt everyday all the time and most of that time you are not wearing your belt anyway, unless your job happens to be running a martial arts school maybe. In the end everything really boils down to what we know and most importantly what we do and what is in our hearts.
Before the 60s oriental martial arts were not that well known to the West...
The following is for martial arts in general of course not just for the west.............
In terms of sports competition today there are much more potentials for black belt kids...I am saying this based on how in every sport, records went better and the averages went better as well....This is due to improvements in diet, training regimes and social conditions....
Who is most probably to be better a sports competition someone that has enough to eat, time to train, e.t.c or someone that has nothing of that?...
Before the 60's perhaps they could be more war like or street-fighting like with a lot of experience in that, but that is a different subject....Wars are more often today as well and in most countries there is a compulsory military service for all males, and many of them are growing up with the possibility of war in their own soil.
The elders have good things to teach but I think there is a misconception by some for the youth today as being something bad...That is not true...That is a discrimination to the youth....The world should be improving and going forward (with the help of he elders of course) and not only glorifying and living in the past while at the same time is putting a 0 to the present...
This was a lifestyle for this young man. There were no outside distractions in his life such as tv, video games, playing baseball, basketball, etc.
Also like you have mentioned this is TKD. Nothing against TKD personally. But they do not have the rules that Okinawan arts have that you must be a minimum of 16 to earn the rank. Even though it can be earned at 16 it was rare. They were the exception to the rules. It would require extreme dedication. Which not be too far out of the ordinary for that culture to be dedicated. Being TKD thy didn't have to learn bunkai. Sure some of the drills they did came from bunkai, but most likely they were unaware of it origin. Most likely they were unaware of the hidden applications. That doesn't take away from their ability to fight or becoming highly skilled it only means there are things they were never taught. It is the missing pieces to the jigsaw puzzle.
We really do coddle our kids today. There are places in the word - Saudi Arabia, for instance - where children of executioners attend their first execution at around 8 years old, and at 13 or 14 are taught to cut off cadaver heads with a sword. They'll assist in their first public execution at around 15 or 16, and might even execute someone by the time they're 20.
Meanwhile, back in The States, we see 15 year olds who have black belts that their mothers have to tie.
Then in Afghanistan, there are 12 year olds who are taught to fire a LAW, toss a grenade, fire an AK-47, make molotov cocktails, and strap bombs around their waist and told to walk into a mosque or hospital and detonate themselves.
Meanwhile, back in The States, we have 13 year old black belts that cry unconsolably when they get tapped in the head during a sparring match.
Then in Iran - this just happened last year - they stoned a man and woman to death for their relationship. The process: The kids stand in front and start to throw rocks for awhile. They don't have enough power to do much damage, so after 10 or 15 minutes, the 14 and 15 year olds take over, and they start pelting the rocks. After that, the rest of the crowd finishes off the pair in about a half hour or 45 minutes.
In Africa, warring tribes consist of anyone old enough to hold a spear - 9 and 10 years old - and attack the other warring tribes. (This happened long ago in New Zealand, New Guinea, New York, and any other place that begins with a "New", as well as our distant Native American relatives, the Mayans, the Incas, and the Aztecs). The winners killed off their vanquished by roasting or boiling them alive and then ate them.
It is curious to define "maturity" and then associate it with a black belt. There is no one standard. A child who lives in the comforts of first world countries do not have to experience the horrors of the third world countries. Their only real exposure - really - is to watch such executions and horrors on Youtube and other sites that cater to this kind of thing.
And in the end, we in the martial arts world do not have a standard by which to award a black belt. We often use the phrase "maturity", but in reality, even the most infantile person - either because of age or sickness - need self-defense. The things you teach an adult for self-defense are not what we ought to teach children - and vice-versa - and then what to do when that child turns to an adult?
I know, I go back and forth on the issue all the time. I note the tournaments (sport) I occasionally visit who have rings dedicated to 7-9 year old black belts. This is sport, not self-defense, so I get it.
I occasionally work out with young black belts, and I have a great time with them: most of the 12 and 13 year old black belts have great personalities, demonstrate great talent and enthusiasm, and are completely oblivious to the outside world.
I don't know what children black belts were like way back when they first started awarding black belts. But I can tell you that there is - today - a world of difference between physical and emotional maturity of children of all ages. We in our society would call it abuse, but children in those other cultures would call it survival.
Without a common bar to apply to all people, the argument over who should get a black belt, and what black belt really means, is moot. I know when I see someone, I can say "they deserved it" or I can say "they didn't deserve it". But I cannot define it, and I think it's pointless to do so.
!!!!!!!!!!! There were no children black belts in the 1960's. Sure, someone may find an exception, but if so it is extremely rare. I have quoted a survey that Black Belt magazine published in the late 1960's or early 1970's. They did a large survey of all styles of martial arts in they U.S.A. They concluded:
* less than 3% of all martial arts students ever reach black belt.
* Less than 50% of those reaching black belt ever made it to 2nd degree black belt.
What people do not understand is that Japanese and Okinawan martial arts ranking system was adopted or copied by the Koreans. But they have not used the strict methods of promotion that the Japanese and Okinawans used. The Standard was that no one was allowed to test for a black belt before the age of 16. There were very few students that tested at that young age. Mainly because very few martial arts schools allowed children at all. It was common for the very few adult students that reached black belt to have trained 5-7 years. Many of the black belts of the 60's trained more than 7 years. I trained from June of 1967 until May of 1975 before receiving my first black belt. Training was much different than today. First, it was adults. Training was about self-defense. As such there was a lot of self-defense and a lot of sparring. Sparring was always hard contact. Many injuries happened. It was normal for injuries to happen often. We had only a protective cup. A few had the knit hand guards and shin protectors the football players wore. I personally witnessed many many adults come into our Dojo or others and join only to quit after a few classes. It was sad to see some mouthy tough guy come in running his mouth about how good he was going to be. Then see them leave quietly to never come back. a friend was in a Taekwondo Class at Clemson University in the Mid 70's. The class was run by Billy Hong. Hong would kick the steel bar between the double doors. I visited my buddy and he took me to see that gym. The doors would not close and had to be held shut with a chain and padlock. The bar had a dent in it at waist height that looked like it had been heel kicked. I'm told that the bar was bent from repeated side thrust kicks that Master Hong and his senior black belt did. My buddy told me that at the beginning of the school year a big number of new students showed up for the first class. I'm told that many did not finish the firs class. He saw one or two puking during class. At least one crawled out, never to come back.
So to answer your question, there is no comparison that can be made between black belts from the 1960's verses those of today. And since there were no children black belts in the 60's there can be no comparison to those of today.
Think about this for a minute if less than 3% of all adult students ever became black belts, then how can the fact that most commercial martial arts schools have dozens of child black belts? Children make up more than 85% of all martial arts students today. and there is certainly a lot more than 3% of them that are handed black belts. I can't understand how anyone can try to justify why any child should be deserving of a black belt...
...
Here's a nifty little equasion for you, one of my mates challenged me to find out how much time I'd actually put into honest sparring.
Here is the equation for the ten years I did Karate.
.5 of an hour times five equals 2.5 hours per week
2.5 hours per week times 52 weeks equals 130 hours in a year.
130 hours in a year times ten years is 1300 hours.
1300 hours divided by twenty-four hours in a day is 54 days meaning over ten years I spent roughly 54 days actually sparring (you can take out public holidays and days I was sick if you want, I'll just add in tournaments and sparring seminars and gradings to come out with a slightly bigger number anyway).
Here's the kicker.
He does Karate as a 'sport' in the military, combine that with his military training and he gets 25 hours of sparring a week, which knocks my piddly number over. Every. Damn. YEAR.
Is it possible for a kid to put that kind of dedication in? Who knows.
If a kid actually is cracking those numbers at fourteen I think they're definitely heading in the right direction...would I test him or her for a shodan? Honestly? I'm glad I'm not a teacher or a style head and don't have to make that kind of call.
Different era, different culture. Hee IL Cho was born during a time when child labor and corporal punishment was still tolerated by society. He himself has said in interviews that he would never subject his children to the type of training and disciplinary actions he was subjected to as a child. Jacky Chan is another example, his harsh training at the Peking Opera School with Yuen Biao and Sammo Hung would definitely be considered child abuse by today's standards. A child of 12 in a third world country back then was more mature compared to first world 12 year olds now. Children back then weren't pampered and coddled, they were required to learn discipline in a harsh environment for them to learn a craft and survive. During Hee Il Cho's time, Korea was just coming out of a devastating war and the people were hardened by suffering and poverty. You really can't compare the 2 eras the same way you can't compare today's 14 year old Japanese boys to 14 year old Samurai sons back in medieval times. While today's 14 year old would be busy playing hooky or playing video games at home, a son of a samurai was expected to have learned all their craft by age 14 and be ready for their ritual of manhood by then to prepare them for a life of service to their emperor.
You have excellent answers here from several.
All I will add it that Mr. Cho did in fact prove himself didn't he.
A great martial artist is Master Cho, and a great guy besides.
Well, now it's basically fake and stuff, no where to find real MAs.
Back then there's less but still have it.
Here is an example of a child black belt from before the 60s
Hee Il Cho http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hee_Il_Cho (TKD)
Yes it happens to be a practitioner of TKD but that's besides the point
Now, as a guilt-ridden black belt at 12 years old 21 year old myself, I agree that black belts should not be given to anything younger than the age of 16-18 years of age. But while the training in the past is obviously different from the training of today in the MA community, what do you think of child black belts back then? Were they any more worthy of a black belt back then?
PS - I understand the sensitivity of the subject.
