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There are many people who talk in absolutes and while it is a sign that you might be, it does not mean anything on its own. I remember an article where the 1st kata demo done to music was by Fumio Demura, if you don't know who this is you need to read up on him. The problem is that many bad schools do it to hide the fact that their students cannot produce audible power by force alone. (many will try to produce the same sound with their mouths). The big problem is the rhythm of the music and the natural rhythm of the Kata. If you look at some beginning Kata they are block and strike which should be done in a quick beat then pause then block strike again. When you use, let's say god save the Queen (God bless America for those who don't realize it's the same song) you will not have the correct breakdown of the kata.

I don't know about "McDojo" per se, but a musical kata is certainly not the traditional way to do it, and it speaks more to performing the moves for performance sake than trying to understand the self-defense meaning behind them. So musical kata are not about self-defense, which is ostensibly what martial arts are supposed to be about.

A McDojo, as I understand it, emphasizes quick belt promotions based on how much money is spend by the students. That's where the expression comes from: pay your money, get your results fast, like a fast-food restaurant. They have a reputation for producing low-quality students and black belts.

I can see the two ideas being related- musical kata don't have anything to do with self-defense, and the product of a McDojo isn't going to have very good self-defense skills- but I don't think the two are inseparable. Who's to say you can't put music to a traditional kata, for example? Who's to say that a McDojo would spend time choreographing musical kata routines?

Kata is a waste of time for the most part. Maybe a warm up but I found most schools use it as a basis of teaching sucking money from fathers of children and teaching then nothing useful. Just a comment on that video, was that supposed to be sparring?? Is sparring where you come from consist of a guy working with you to make you look like you are actually doing something? That video is a joke, it shows nothing. Post a video of kata actually being used sparring for real. Can't be done, it does not exist. Or if it does it shows a guy in a horse stance getting beat to a pulp.

Kata is being fed to unknowing people to drain there wallets when time can be better spent on really self defense time. Kata is good for strengthening your thighs maybe, that's all I got out of those ridiculous poses, that's it. It's a warm up for real self defense that might actually teach something. It is not shadow boxing, boxers that shadow box do things they really use.

Spend time perfecting your form hitting, kicking etc. that will help telegraphing hits or kicks in the air from unsteady poses that tangle your legs will get you tipped like a sleeping cow and your head kicked like a soccer ball.

I cannot stand musical forms. I hate them with a passion. But not because I don't think they have value, it's because I don't dance well either: I can't dance to a beat, and typically, forms-to-music also tend to require performance to a beat.

When I do my forms, it's almost always to dynamic tension. I'm out of breath after doing even the most basic forms. But, in self-defense, it is not always necessary to do things with strength: sometimes, smooth movements are better than strong movements. Trying to do a form to music - particularly fast music where you have to abandon strength in favor of speed, or slow classical to set the mindset - helps loosen up the mind and slow down and not take it so hard. Music can also be effective to ward off boredom, as anyone who spends time on a treadmill, bike, weightroom, etc can attest. So, musical forms do have a purpose.

I am reminded that people who shadow box or kick a kicking bag - or do any solo work - are doing kata. And when they are doing solo work to music, they're doing kata to music. Yoga students do it to music, dancers do it to music, martial artists do it to music. Hell, a great deal of Y!A Martial Arts questions deal with entrance music to MMA or UFC fights. Music is an important tool, it shouldn't be discounted.

Just because a school encourages some music to their forms does not automatically mean they are a McDojo. Very few traditional schools will use music, so, the perception is that only McDojos use music, and I will admit that a great many Mcdojos do this. But, one does not imply the other.

Forms are only a tool for training. So is music.

Whoever told you this is crap. Music shouldn't in any way lessen the impact of your training (kata or otherwise). People workout in the gym and listen to music. Does that mean that people who listen to music work-out less than people who don't listen to music?

Nonsense. Music is actually very useful when practicing forms and katas, as it may assist in the fluidity and meditation of the exercise.

However, it's important that the music ONLY assists. When the main emphasis becomes the music and how to make your movements fancier to match the music, then it becomes a McDojo, because all you're trying to do is make a dance. The main purpose of the katas should be the martial aspect of your discipline, and the music is only there to assist you. If the emphasis is on how to look fancy and nice, then it becomes a McDojo.

Doing musical kata does not mean the school is a mcdojo.

I have never done a musical kata. They are not done in my school. I have no use for them personally. My reasons is that self defense is not being taught in those types of kata. It is just for performance IMO.

I have seen them in tournament. It is just another avenue for those hosting the tournaments to make more money. Generally you get to compete in 3 areas. if they have musical kata that is a 4th area of competition. Those that want to compete in more than 3 areas pay an additional amount to compete. Musical kata can be entertaining to some. Others will not like them.

When you add music, it becomes more about an entertainment performance rather than a serious training regime. To train in Kata is to train in every aspect of the style. Music has nothing to do with that, so associating music to it and perform it together rips away the whole purpose.





McDojos are McDojos for way more reasons than that. Its how they treat the martial arts as a whole that makes them so repulsive. They turn it into a spectacle of entertainment. Adding music only deepens that part of them.





Also, you don't need music to do Kata. Adding music at all is pretty much worthwhile towards your martial arts training.

I imagine that it will be almost all the time. There is no purpose in adding music to kata. It has no actual usage; it is now about performance and looking good. This is not the purpose of kata. The purpose of kata is to teach you self defense. This involves an in-depth look at kata. When you do something like add music to it, the music distracts you from the true intent of kata.

I think it depends on how the music is used. If it's to make your art look flowery and pretty, than it isn't going to be worth it and it's most likely a mcdojo. That being said, music can be very helpful in learning the martial arts, if listening to music helps you understand rhythm and timing, both of which are essential skills in fighting, than it's worthwhile. Basically it breaks down this way; if it's for performance only than it's a waste of time, if it helps you understand and react better and grow as a martial artist, than it is entirely fine.

I've seen kata done to music for demonstrations.

Okinawan dance includes a great deal of martial arts techniques because of martial arts being outlawed under occupation.

Contrary to what KW says, kata serves an important purpose if done correctly. When folks haven't been taught how to use it as one of the many tools in developing as a martial artist misguided views like his are formed.

As far as using music, it can allow you to work on rhythm, and as others said, it can just be fun. I wouldn't recommend using music with your kata all the time but to change things up it can be a nice change of pace

So there is no relationship between kata and music and McDojos!

I am just curious. I herd that you are in a McDojo if you do Kata to music for let's say Taekwond, and Karate.

I don't have an issue with music accompanying a kata.

I've read that Mas Oyama (the Kyokushin guy) would always ask students what their favorite kind of music was before he started teaching them, if they didn't have an answer they didn't get lessons. Music and dancing can have everything a fight has, tempo, rhythmn, timing, emotion, moving with or against someone, even pain.

Wow, all these nay sayers...have we forgotten Capoeria?

If you're doing the hard sparring training to put it into context just about any excercise becomes relevant.

You are correct in saying that you should not be doing forms in to music, however, forms do have martial arts value. Forms are designed for self-defense every move in the form is desgined to be used including strikess kicks and sweeps. Also stances could mean that you are performing a trip or takedowns.

Edit: and since the subject of board breaking has been brought up, board breaking is used to practice technique. Should you ever hit a board at angle the board will never break, as power is lost in the angle you are kicking. Board also teach you to it properly. Say you are punching, when punching you should be hitting with your first two knuckles not all four or the last two, if you do, you will most likely injure or break your hand.

Although I have not done this, I have seen it done by people I respect. As I have witnessed it, adding music added a layer of complexity to the form. In martial arts, we stretch our abilities physically and mentally. This seems to be just one more way to push yourself. I wouldn't make it part of my regular training, but I might try it, to see if I can do it.

Forms are part of the system of sparring, a sort of programmed shadow boxing. Learning forms really well embeds the combinations contained in them into your mind and muscle memory. I have, in a real world situation, automatically reacted to an emergency with a sequence from a form. It was extremely fast and effective. I surprised myself, because the combination I used was the perfect one for that situation, but not the one I would have chosen consciously. The more forms you know well, the more situations you are equipped to deal with.

It doesn't make it a McDojo if it isn't part of the main curriculum. However, I feel that if you're learning any form without it being broken down for you to use in sparring or real fighting, then you're not learning the real deal.

It doesn't. But if it is all you are doing, then it is not doing you any good. For demo's, that's okay. For actual training, you are suppose to be concentrating on doing the moves correctly - not listening to music. If you really are concentrating, then you cannot hear the music so what is the point?

Might as well take a dancing class.

Guess we understand your point of view and it could be true.