> Traditional karate vs krav maga?

Traditional karate vs krav maga?

Posted at: 2014-09-13 
Goju Ryu is a great martial art. The question is, is your dojo a good one and is your instructor teaching you "good" Goju or not.

None of us can tell you that. Only you or someone who has trained with him or her can tell.

Likewise, as pointed out there are a ton of crappy Krav Maga schools out there, but also some really good ones exist.

I train in Uechi Ryu which is a smaller Okinawan style than Goju Ryu but has some similarities (and many differences). I can tell you that if your instructor is teaching you good kata, good sparring, that's a good sign. They should also be teaching you conditioning.

Eye strikes can be very effective if done right. I love eye strikes for self defense as it makes it hard for your attacker to do anything and gives you time to get out of there or counter.

As for "snapping arms in half etc" this concerns me. Yes Okinawan styles like Goju and Uechi can be very violent and we have techniques to break arms, knees, etc, teaching such things to beginners usually isn't done. And that's because it takes a certain amount of skill to do those things effectively. I teach my students some basic traps, grabs, etc, but showing them how to break a limb isn't something I emphasis until they gain rank. In fact, I can't think of many that teach it before a student is at least half way through the Kyu (colored) ranks.

I say it concerns me as I wonder about the quality of your core Goju Ryu. Now a concern doesn't mean you're not learning good stuff. It just means that you should watch for other things that might indicate that you're not learning from a good instructor.

My suggestion is to do research on the web, find information about Goju Ryu and study it. See what matches what your instructor is teaching you and what is different. You should see that most is similar, if not then dig more.

I have tried Krav Maga for some cross training (I do Kenpo and wrestling) along with BJJ for about a year. The BJJ was fine, only problem was that the first place I went to for BJJ wasn't really legit so I moved but overall a pretty good (maybe a little bit technical for my liking) and effective for self defence. The first Krav Maga place I went to was just some bullshit scam that taught things that didn't even work in real life. It took me 3 attempts to find a decent place but what they taught was just some basic bjj and Muay Thai/Kickboxing with a few ineffective disarming techniques. While I assume that its a very effective martial art when It is taught properly in Israel but a lot of those sites that have 'special forces trained instructors' or something like that is probably a scam. I would stick to the Goju Ryu as karate has always been a favourite for me but try a bit of cross training or a legit self defence course (some courses I have done were pretty good, and no its wasn't krav maga, it was like judo, jiu jitsu and muay thai).

I love reading John's (member since 2-15-2011) comments, especially those where he bad mouths Krav Maga. The ignorance he shows is overwhelming. Anyone who is aware of the Krav Maga system knows it can be a devastating system against any opponent. But in the same instance, any martial artist, regardless of their "style", can be defeated in the moment against a trained opponent. The question you have presented is the old one of "Traditional -vs- non-traditional". It is not about the system (style), it is about the practitioner. Lyoto Machida is a straight up traditional Karate fighter who was very successful in the UFC. He has both defeated, and been defeated by, non-traditional martial artists. So the question is not relevant when actually considering systems. I personally prefer Krav Maga because it is best suited to the combined martial systems training I have been doing for the last 4 decades. It is easier to learn than traditional systems and can be utilized effectively in a shorter time as well.

@ John (member since 2-15-2011), Again I extend the invitation to enter ANY Krav Maga Alliance training center (KravMagaAlliance.com/affiliates) and express to the instructor that Krav Maga is $hit. As I had said before, if you weren't hiding your profile I would gladly direct you to the closest location myself.

Look as much as i hate that KM is just rubbish in most places, i will admit IF you can find a good instructor then it is a great place to learn realistic self defense. I dont believe half of the hype and garbage that is said but if you want to become proficient in self defense fast then legitimate KM is definately the way to go.

That being said though, i think KM is very much just a self defense course and after a few months then you may as well be learning Karate. Karate will give you a more broad knowledge on things and give you a deeper understanding as a way of life. Karate will still give you practical and resounding self defense skills but it is trained and drilled over time through repetition. It is a long process that requires much dedication this is why it is more than just a self defense course.

I personally feel that LEGITIMATE KM training is a valuable tool that everyone should have a couple of months doing but after you have the skills to help defend out of the basic bad scenarios you are faced then i think a martial art is a much better option.

Honestly, i trained KM for a while and found some things very applicable and moulded them into my training but there was a number of issues i had with a few of the teachings that i thought were in my eyes and the eyes of a couple of friends (who are instructors in style different to mine) that we thought were very negligent and showed no duty of care. I had issues with the instructors at both places showing disrespect to other martial arts and i found this extremely offensive, not only to my arts but to all arts. I also found technical issues and faults they were doing wrong on the ground to escape back to their feet (something as simple as a bridge and roll) and upon showing the instructor the faults he told me that i was wrong and told me that KM is the best self defense in the world and that what they taught was correct. considering i am a GJJ black belt you would think i might know something of what i was talking about there.

We have also had numerous womans groups come from KM and come and train GJJ so they can learn to escape from the ground better because they could not get back to their feet and thus left KM.

Like anything else, LEGITIMATE KM (not the ones where you get your instructors certificate from a wheaties box) is a great tool to add to your arsenal but it is just that, a tool. So too is Karate.

Arts cannot be inherently better than one another. What matters is the quality of training and instruction you are receiving, that's it.

There are McDojos and bad schools in every martial art. That makes it even more important to seek a good school and instructor and not worry about the style name.

The Israeli military is not the only place that teaches real Krav Maga. There are some schools, though not too common, in the US that teach real Krav Maga. There is actually a legitimate KM school not too far from where I live. The head instructor was from the Israeli military, and what he was teaching was the real deal. It's ridiculous to say to avoid all KM schools just because the real ones are hard to find. It's the same case with Taekwondo, not every school is bad. Again, it makes no sense at all to just say to avoid all schools of a certain syle. You look at schools and instructors, not styles.

Let me take a wild guess at how your self defense classes go. You team up with someone, he comes at you with this long jab. Then you take his hand or arm, do some really cool move and snap his arm off or throw him to the floor. Something like that?

Let me ask you to do this. Stand up in your regular stance and then do a regular jab. Or even a jab and a cross. Just a regular 1 and 2. How long did it take you to punch and get your arm back to its original position? Half a second? Less?

With that in mind, how can you grab someones arm midair, do a move and finish him off before his arm retracts? The simple answer is that you can't. The techniques that you learn and that you call self defense have a very, very low chance of succeeding. Real life situations don't look like that.

Krav Maga is just pure crap. If you are in the Israeli military then it's great. Very effective. But if you are not then I would avoid it like the plague. I'm not really in the mood to go over why it's bad because I answered a similar question just recently. But it's $hit.

You need to practice with a resisting opponent to find out if something works. Someone who will fight you and struggle every step of the way. That's the way to train.

@Bogeyman

I never said that Krav maga couldn't be an effective system. It can be and if taught correctly it is. If you can find a trainer who learned it straight from the source then by all means go for it. But the problem is finding a legit trainer.

I don't know if your place is legit. Maybe it is. I don't know and frankly I don't care. I haven't seen true krav maga. I've only seen the crappy, civilian version and I was not impressed.

In all cases when trying to compare things like this, it is the instruction that matters.



So, the best of the 2 you have mentioned would be the one with the good instruction.



Bear in mind that both have fallen too much to the McDojo craze, arts prostituted for money.



Also realize that KM is military in nature, and borrowed everything it used from many other arts, karate included. I think you are more likely to find a good karate instructor than a KM instructor in North America.



That means you need to seek an instructor, not a style, as many of us have always told it.

Which one do you think is more effective for self defense purposes? I train in goju ryu karate and I think it is fairly effective. We do kata and sparring but mostly self defense. I dont know how hardcore it is compared to krav maga but it involves a lot of serious moves like going for eye/throat shots, snapping arms in half etc... I your own educated opinion, which style do you think is more useful in real life scenarios?