I used to think that way too back when I was younger and was still training in JKD(which I realized in hindsight was basically kickboxing with Bruce Lee's named stamped on it). But back then, I thought the JKD straight blast and the lead right straight were better than the fancy limb destruction stuff I saw in Eskrima. Then back in the late 90's I got the opportunity to train under an old timer who was teaching Kali. I had a background in Aikido by then and considered myself pretty competent with a sword and knife, when one day during a demo, he asked me to attack him with a stick and then with a knife while he was unarmed. He then proceeded to tie me up like a pretzel, threw me on the ground and started poking me with his fist to emphasize that he could have thrown strikes on me while I was pinned to the ground by his knees. He gave me about a dozen tries before I gassed out and decided I had enough lessons for one day. I'm not saying all the schools out there are teaching legit stuff, but there are good instructors who do teach you good empty hand techniques. But you must remember, the Filipino Martial arts are basically war arts or to be more precise, killing arts, they were not really designed for self defense the way self defense is being taught in the states today, back then, you trained with the idea that you will be using real blades to cut, stab and hack your opponent to death and keep him from doing the same to you. The stick was only used as a training tool and for defense during peace time, when using a blade would be deemed excessive force. So the empty hand arts were not emphasized as much because it was assumed most Filipino warriors would be carrying a blade, more than one in fact, and the enemy would also be similarly armed, so the chances of fighting empty handed is small though still possible. If you're really keen on learning empty hand striking arts for competition, then you're probably better off training in Muay Thai or Boxing. Since the limb destruction techniques where primarily design to counter and neutralize weapon wielding attackers, not empty hand strikes.

@Philospher Stone: "...is unarmed attacks the bane of eskrima empty hands?"

Not really. Let me put it this way....A Marine fighting in Afghanistan would never consider using empty hand techniques to attack an armed enemy during a battle nor would he drop his gun and engage in hand to hand combat if he sees his enemy is unarmed. He'd order the enemy to show his hands and assume a submissive position or else he shoots. If in the event he loses his weapon or is disarmed, sure, he can engage in hand to hand combat, but only to gain time to be able to either recover his weapon and shoot or to pick up any available weapon to gain an advantage. That is what I meant by war arts or killing art. What you are complaining about is that Eskrima empty hand techniques doesn't work as a stand alone art for use in sports competition in the ring against trained opponents, that's because you are fighting for points not for self defense. There's a difference. If your life is really in danger and you need to defend yourself, you'll be able to use whatever is at your disposal to survive, even techniques you deem questionable.

While I don't draw on FMA empty-hand for the majority of my background, the things I've learned have worked for me, or have been compatible/identical with stuff I've pressure-tested from other martial arts (how many different ways can you throw an elbow, anyway?). You seem intent on going off on these rants, but how much FMA training do you really have?

Eskrima empty hand works I am pretty sure and if I am to have a child I would have it taught some kind of weapons form no blade unless it is broad blade chinese wudan martial leyean.

Surely you can see that your question isn't really a question; you are technically ranting, but I sympathize.





Let the little kiddies have their stupid opinions. It's no skin off your asscheek what they say now is it?





There's no such thing as a fraudulent art. Anyone saying that is clearly an idiot who doesn't even have a clue.

im not even going to read your bs rant.

going by all your other questions you are obviously home training and have no instructor.

you obviously don't understand limb destruction or how much its relied upon either

try getting an instructor and you will actually learn something

I think you do about as much eksrima as I do. Meaning none. I'm not taking your questions seriously. You're just another troll.

no. it is not a fraudulent art. there can be fraudulent instructors but that does not mean that the art that they are trying to represent is fraudulent.

Jesus Christ make a video or write a book. That's a lot of text.

One of the things I believe hurts the Philippine fighting arts is the commercial influence on who we are as a style. I am speaking about all of this “information sharing” that FMA people like to do. You know, let’s have a “gathering”, take some pictures, smile and show off to each other what we know, etc. Or attend each other’s seminars, then present the other guy’s stuff as if it was in our style too. Or “cross train” into someone else’s system–whether the art is valid or not–and then teach that art to our students. It discourages standing alone on what you do, refining what you do, and testing out if what you do is functional or not–and especially, testing out if the next guy’s techniques are valid. And don’t give me that “well, it works for me” b.s. neither; either you can fight, and your technique is sound, or it’s garbage. Martial artists, especially FMA artists, are such sissies now, that they are afraid to hurt another Guro’s feelings or even to say that some other Guro’s techniques are useless because they might have to prove it.

So allow me: 99% of what you guys are doing as empty handed Arnis or empty handed Eskrima is doo-doo. I mean that with all the love and respect I can, because our Creator knows I love my country and my country’s arts. But what you guys put on Youtube to demo to the world is making us look bad, and making the guys who are serious about fighting look past the FMA teacher, because they have seen what most of have to offer, and it’s garbage. So there are a few tough MF’s out there teaching the art, like Paul Vunak and Dog Brothers (not all, just the main guys who started it all), and they give us a little bit of credibility, but if you look closer, you’ll see that even they rely on something else to make their empty hand combat-effective, rather than the same patty-cake BS most of us do. For Paul Vunak, he is beating up on his students so he’s using plain old big balls for his fighting, but the stuff he teaches is whack. For the Dog Brothers, its BJJ, and they don’t even touch the patty cake FMA for a good reason. Out of respect for the FMA community, they don’t say it, but they don’t have to. For the rest of the FMA people supposedly teaching effective empty hand fighting, they are just going with the wind and teaching what everyone else is doing, so they don’t count. And please don’t get me started on Inosanto Kali and Pekiti Tirsia; I have friends who do those styles, and they’ve heard my opinions many, many times, and I’m tired of repeating myself on that, and pissing off my good friends. ;-)

First let me say this, the hand and arms are not sticks. They cannot be used as sticks as long as you are supposedly trying to kick someone’s behind. It does not feel the same as a stick, and except for a few raw movements, cannot be wielded the same way. The striking surfaces are completely different, and different levels of power are needed to inflict damage. The targets you will hit with the hand, the fist, the arm, and the stick are very different. If you don’t understand that, you might need to go back to the (different) classroom.

Second, the hand is not a knife either. Yes, it can move in the same pattern as a knife, but if you slap some guy up against the forearm as if it was a knife, he is going to kick your ***, because it’s obvious you’ve been reading too many Inside Kung Fu magazines and you’re not serious about fighting. All those drills are good for is to impress women and out-of-shape suburbanites. Try going into a boxing gym and showing them that crap. And please videotape it so I can add it to my “humor” playlist, because somebody’s going to catch a very funny big momma beatdown!

The problem is, that people are creating a system as they go. Half the time teachers are demoing “what you might be able to do without a stick”, they are showing you something they have not practiced, and certainly something they have not USED in a fight. You can tell just by the way they show it to you. There are some that have developed a “system” of this baloney too, but it still lacks the fundamental thing needed to call it “fighting art”: to fight with it. If they at least did that, they would have to go back to the drawing board over and over, and either of two things will happen. One, they develop it until those “limb destructions” would become functional (btw, limb destructions do work, but not the way 99.9% of FMA people do them). Or two, they toss the techniques into the “nice to look at but not use” pile, along with empty handed sinawali (yes, empty handed sinawali too!). The seminar format of teaching is the culprit for a lot of it. It took reputatable Eskrima styles, and made them want to compete with mainstream FMA by being forced to say “oh, we have that too!” and have to devote training time to some bullcrap that ain’t your specialty.

Let’s visit some of the irritating FMA empty hand that will get you beat down in a fight:

Limb destructions–too much relian